the facts at propane.com/now. her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. ♪ hi there, everyone. here we go. it's 4:00 in new york. courtroom 1530 at 100 center street in new york has seen it's fair share of alleged crooks and

schemer. right now, that courtroom is host to a criminal defendant like no other. at this moment the ex-president is currently on trial for 34 of the 88 felony counts he faces, for illegally covering up a sex scandal from the american voters on the eave of the 2016 presidential election there have been hours of intense back and forth of potential key pieces, also a rebuke by judge merchan, denies a request to recuse from the case, with donald trump's claims that his daughter's works creates a flicks are innuendo and then they tangled over

admissions into trial. evidence involving the "national enquirer" in a catch-and-kill scheme, that evidence is in. the infamous "access hollywood" tape, the judge said the tape is out, but what he said on the tape condition admitted in a transcript. the overall picture, according to "new york times" is this, quote -- the prosecution is getting favorable rulings on these questions about evidence so far, as judge mmerchan says they will allow them to introduce certain evidence.

the district attorney accusing trump of violating the gag order. nbc news is reporting that joshua steinglass argued that trump's efforts have continued through this day. he says the witnesses in the case have incurred the wrath of trump supporters. he skillfully and consistently puts out posts in the political sphere and in court. the judge has scheduled a hearing for april 23rd on the issues. a dramatic day one is where we begin today with some of our most favorite reports and friends. sue clagg and charles coleman is here. also joining us, former senator and co-host of msnbc's podcast,

is with us. sue, i see your notebook. i'm desperate to grab it and read it. what is in there? >> first of all, thanks for having me. i'm glad to be in air conditioning. >> it was hot, hot enough to make a grown man snooze. >> i was in the overflow room in the morning. so the overflow room was packed. we had a visual of donald trump. for most of the morning he was quite engaged with his lawyers, passing notes back and forth, whispering, sort of the things you would imagine, and then around noon, it looked like he was nodding off. not sure, but you're watching, and all of a sudden his head went down and snapped back up. that was quite a moment. >> live tv is i don't always nod off, because i have a small

child at home. i'm sympathetic to the snoozing. >> it is hot in there. >> when joe biden blinks too long, it's a major issue. that he nodded off in his own criminal trial is an interesting contrast to what we'll hear from him later. >> they're just finishing up jury selection. i think we got a real insight into why this takes so long. why is jury selection going to take two weeks, at least. today, the whole morning was consumed with procedure motions, some of the ones you mentioned at the top, whether or not one of them is the "national enquirer" if we should have a broad of view of the "national enquirer." there's a reeling that melania was pregnant and that won't come in. there's a lot of that going on.

finally, they got to jury selection in the afternoon, and in the overflow room, the screens just went dark for an hour, because all of them had to go through security again. this is going to happen every day. once the jury was inside, the judge spoke to them for about half an hour, and he read a loot of the names, and the names of the witnesses. he asked any of them if there was a reason they couldn't serve. maybe that's because they have a family issue or just simply couldn't render a fair decision. more than 50 of those gyres left. then they started going through the remainder. they were asked questions we talked about, publications that you read, have you been to a trump rally? 42 questions, that as the judge said, the longest questionnaire he has ever seen. this is going to take time to go through them. there will be a lot of jurors

that each side doesn't want. i can see it going for some time just on the jury selection. >> the 50 that were sort of gone off the bat, that was on the single question of, is there any reason you feel you can't be impartial? >> yeah, it was kind of if unfortunately you can't be impartial, you can leave now. they were just allowed to leave to try to expedite this. there's a level of security when you come in. part of the building, the 15th floor, you have to go to a separate elevator bank. once they're on the 15th floor, they have to go through ute level of security. >> trurp is so known for casting his various -- you said he was

engaged. is that part of weighing in? >> of course it did. there was a moment if the judge asked if he could be fair, and he 'rolling his eyes, and that's what you're seeing. >> we've been joined by the one and only vaughn hillyard. >> good to see you again, my friend. we have 23 minutes left here until the day one of the criminal trial of donald trump comes to an end. judge merchant erchan said he will conclude this evening regardless of where they are at. two thirds of the 98 jurors were

dismissed from the outset. one of the first four potential jurors who went through the entire questionnaire quote, do you have any strong opinions about former president donald trump that would interfere with your ability to be a fair and impartial juror. that one question i lone, that potential juror said yes and was dismissed. when you go back to david pecker, the ceo of the parent company of "the national enquirer" and planned out a catch-and-skill team, and per michael cohen, with the a plan

to plant stories that were negative about people like marco rubio, and ted cruz through the primary process. this case tells the story of, you look at michael cohen, an individual who flipped on donald trump. you look at allen weisselberg, currently in jail because he stood solely in the corner of donald trump, and as a consequence he finds himself in jail and unwilling to testify truthfully about donald trump. on in the totality of the nine years of donald trump, the contacts and individual we will be looking at brought forward by alvin bragg will be compelling voices, al while donald trump must sit there, required as a criminal defendant, to listen to the individuals who had been such key figures throughout the last ten years of his life. >> one of many, many services you provide is that you attend trump rallies, right? you hear the whole speech from

the beginning to the middle to the end. i have seen enough of your reporting to know that he's essentially running on what he's been charged with in jack smith's case. he honors the insurrectionists, his basic defense is when you're president, they let you stay. and same with mar-a-lago. he didn't apologize, he says, no. have you evidence heard him run on any of the facts of this facts of case what happens is out of his control. unless he takes the stand

himself toe questions that basically he's object fuss indicated on in the past, he's not in control. that's where i was at his rally in pennsylvania, where he referred to thousands as sit, because for donald trump, if he is found guilty and it's the one thing to keep him from behind bars, and turn them into trump voters will be absolutely consequentially.

it will be keep to being actually not having to serve that prison time. he knows he has a captive audience. one man directly believed there were about 5,000 people there. i use that example, because that is reflective of, when he talks about this case, folks repeat. if he is found guilty and sentenced, he needs them to avoid potentially that fate, nicolle. >> claire, this is such an important body to have on our brains.

they're going to -- we're going to understand the motions, the rulings, the pressures bearing down for trump, this is all political. the political defense isn't i didn't do it. whether or not i did it doesn't matter, because they're the deep state. because trump assembled a conspiracy to catch and killed imcoyle the rumor -- and then was reckless enough to nod do it in a way that could remained unsealed.

that got him nailed the way he did it. it's going to be so important to keep front and center. it's hard to say clearly earth two, and i think it's important we don't use sight of those peopled first are the people believing this man form the more he repeats, the more they believe it. way he's abuing the prospect to make it look like he's been treated differently, when in reality he's being treated the same, if not better of people who had the same set of facts.

i think each side gets ten preemptory challenges, they can remove ten from the jury that they adopt like. we're down to less than 20 gyres? jurors? there's no way. they'll have to start with more people before this is over with. all he needs is one juror for a hung injury. jury. he wouldn't be acquitted, about you he wouldn't be convicted. that would be the fuel he needs for his rocket, his victim to go all the way to november. >> charles?

one of the concerns i've had is the notion that we could end up with a stealth juror. >> explaina. >> a stealth juror goes in with their mind already made up, but acts as if they can be fair and partial. they lie during the course of voir dire -- will tell the court and the other jurors i can be fair and impartial. >> i watch -- or they might say, conversely i don't really follow the news. i'm not political astute or active. i voted before, but i diplomat

donate for donald trump they make it seem as though they're middle of the road in terms of the peremptory challenges, there's nothing i've giving pla flag to either side. i'm going to make sure that donald trump gets convicted, if they meet their burden or don't. i understand he lost the popular vote, but there were still

millions who voted for this man. there's ways, you try to sniff those things out, but it's hard, especially if someone is good and committed to it. it will be an interesting process. this is a long jury questionnaire. i thought one of the things that was interesting to me about the questionnaire is there's a separate question whether you believe in qanon, whether you align with the three percenters or proud boys or antifa. the reason why i find that interesting is because, as a former prosecutor, i can tell you, you will use things like their news source to decide whether you want to use a preemptory challenge. the fact they're separate suggests the judge is willing to excuse someone who identifies as

qanon or antifa, for cause. that's a big deal. it means that you're not wasting any of your preemptory challenges, which is what it comes down to. >> i have somebody i know who showed up march 25th and showed up and was hoping to be on the jury. we were getting reports they were all looking over appeared donald trump, people who smiled. everything knows who he is. a lot of people want to be part of this, others want nothing to do with it. >> right, the 50 that ran for office. but there's a lot of people who would like to get on the -- we

couldn't see them from the room we were in, and separately, the judge -- so we know them by number, by donald trump's team knows who they are, and donald trump will have access to it, as well as the government lawyers. they were told they'll get the list. they're not allowed to take pictures of the list or copy it, and it has to be returned at the end of the day. so the judge is going through extraordinary measures to make sure the names do not get out. we'll keep an eye on the courtroom door. lisa rubin will join the conversation, and we'll put the republican nominee in one of the more vulnerable position. we'll look at how this new york

criminal trial might test that for him, months ahead of the election. and more legal friends we have turned to many, many times in the continued efforts from all across this country to hold the ex-president accountable. they'll join us on this extraordinary day, this extraordinary moment for our country. our special coverage on "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. " continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. hidden fees, surcharges... who knows what to expect! turn shipping to your advantage. keep it simple...with clear, upfront pricing. with usps ground advantage®. ♪♪ kayak. no way. why would i use kayak to compare hundreds of travel sites at with usps gonce? advantage®. kayak. i like to do things myself. i do my own searching. it isn't efficient. use kayak. i can't trust anything else to do the job right.

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knicks. how many times have we heard the same story, i want to testify, absolutely i'm going to, i'm going to tell the truth. you know that something is -- you know he's not a good defendant, he's not a good witness. and confused her with marla maples, he's not a good witness. he's not going to take the stand. if fact, i hope i am wrong. i think that would be absolutely classic for america to be able to see donald trump on the witness stand, trying to defend himself, in case that indefendable.

it seems hard to be admitted about the practice, by both suppression, and the planting of negative stories about rivals, but there's also the subplot of sort of the clash of the titans, right? you're covering when people who were told, who they're in, they believe even though they're standing amid 5,000 people. sort of the piercing, breaking candor has won over a lot of people importantly, including alvin bragg, that went about the painstaking work of corroborating his insider accounts.

>> reporter: number one, when you turn to michael cohen, he was pretty much the fixer up to 2018. they didn't break in news, it was on air force one, just a few weeks later when donald trump finally got a question about the $130,000. his responsible at the time was, no, you have to ask michael cohen, he's moot attorney. it was that response that led to the fraying of that relationship. until then, there's only been one man who has repeatedly gone under oath and pled guilty to being involved in this alleged scheme. that man was michael cohen. he's sat down with several people to talk through that

relationship. frankly when you look at where michael cohen is they have just -- and they repeatedly said they found him as an incredible witness. he's provided other corroborating evidence. only one other individual has actualr actually testified under oath. i was invited on his campaign plane, the last time i was on to ask question, i asked him three specific questions about michael cohen, right? i said, well, when did you become familiar he was paying stormy daniels. he said later, much later on.

i asked, what were you reimbursing him checks with? >> he said, well, he did a lot for me. i think the -- >> it's an important distinction, only one is -- and having his testimony corroborated, a lot of the same documents that were sort of mentioned and covered in the reporting. at the end of the day, this comes down to a documents case. there will be other people who will say i saw this, i talked to so-and-so, but i think it will come down to the documents, and they may take on a personality of themselves.

>> you and i know from reading, the documents are what put it over the top. >> the number of checks that were there, some were signed in the oval office, and what were they for? legal services? or the hush-money payments to stormy daniels. >> again, legal services, even by donald trump, was laundered. we have made a decision on this first day if donald trump comes out and starts talking, we may want to listen, if he starts lying or threatening people, we will pull away immediately. what are your thoughts? >> i think he will continue to use this en route as donald trump the candidate. i think it's important to understand he's got to figure out a strategy with how do we

not ostensibly not be out campaigning while i'm stuck in court, because i have to be here every day as a matter of furthering -- he may say a lot of the jurors were smiling at me. i had jurors who i could tell were on my side orb what have you. what he's done and continued to do, i call it putting pressure on the reps. in all these cases, he's daring each of the judges punish me, give me the consequences that you say -- >> you mean gag orders, because i'm going to raise money off of it. i'm going to solicit additional support off of it, and i'm ultimately going to try to convert people into voters off of it.

you saw the prosecution today move to have him sanctioned for violating the gag order. the judge said i'll decide it next week. there is recent tense for all of these judges to act quickly. they want to make sure nothing will open the door to an appeal. but in the meantime, donald trump will continue to push the envelope. i expect him to do that when he leaves court. >> do you think the approach is working? >> yes, i do. if anything. it could create space to make and file different motions to make arguments or why they're being threatened -- that all contributes to the delay. i don't know how effective it would be going forward, but it's

been effective. >> is it working for the rule of law? >> no, not yet. i think there comes a point where donald trump pushes as fast or as hard as he can in full a particular judge. it's definitely not going to be cannon, we know that, but there comes a pointy the judge is ability to institute a seral level of consequence, and it can't broadband appeal. >> claire, last word, and then we'll sneak in a break. i want to ask about this thin about what charles just said, what trump is likely to say about the juries. are they likely to be warned against -- don't want tv, but they can say don't go onto social media. what are they going to ask the jurors to do, not go on the computer for two months?

>> yeah. they'll be asked to avoid any word that could influence them in this trial. they'll be asked to put a be able around themselves and focus only on what they hear in the courtroom. let me just say this. there's a lot of talk about the credibility of mike khouw hen and stormy daniels. charles will back me up on this, if we require every witness in a criminal trial to be wonderful citizens of this country, we'll have to open up the prisons and let everybody out. i have news for folks. witnesses in criminal trials often been part of a criminal enterprise, often in seedy positions where they they were not acting as good citizens. the key is their credibility. the jury will have a chance to

judge their bias, look at the corroborating evidence, and decide who is telling the truth. that's where i think michael cohen has an ace up his sleeve. hi can say i lied, but guess who i lied for? >> no matter where you come down idea logically, that is sort of a known known. lisa rubin will join us and about the one piece of evidence that started it all. started it. ? that means less stress for you. >> woman: thanks. >> tech: my pleasure. have a good one. >> woman: you too. >> tech: schedule today at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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court will return tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. much of the day was spend talking about how much prosecutors can use that infamous hollywood tape in this trial. the judge ruled, while they can't play the tape, they can introduce the evidence on what was said. if case anyone needs a reminder, here's the tape. >> i'm automatically attracted to women. i start kissing them. they're a magnet. if you're a star, they let you do anything. if you want, grab them by [ bleep ]. >> even after all these years,

it's still jarring to me. the judge says he believes the "access hollywood" video should not be shown to jurors, because it's so prejudicial, but the transcript will be allowed. from the outside it seems like an inconsiderably thin slice of the onion, but jurors will know what he said. >> jurors will probably match it. it's probably the most famous piece of video in the world. i can see why he did it, but the jury will know and hear him saying it while it's being read. we're going to do something, we'll come out if this he start lying or threatening people. >> i looking forward for years to have graduation with his mother and father there. to looks like the judge won't

allow mem to escape the scam trial. if you read the legal pundits. there's not one that i see, if this is a case that could be brought or tried, it's a scam. a political witch-hunt continues forever, and we won't be given a fair trial. it's a very, very sad thing. in addition, as you know, we're before the -- we'll by talking about immunity. the judge is very conflicted and he won't allow me to leave here for half a day, go to d.c. before the united states supreme court, because he thinking he's superior, i guess. we have a real problem with this judge, and a lot of problems with this trial, including the

d.a. you go outside, people are being killed all day long, and he's sitting here with 10 or 12 prosecutors over nothing, over what people say -- over what people say shouldn't be tried. so i just want to thank you very much, but -- i can't go to my son's graduation or i can't go to the united states supreme court, that i'm not in georgia or florida or north carolina campaigning like i should be. it's perfect for the radical level democrats. that's exactly what they want. this is about election interference, that's all it's about. thank you very much. this was about a -- the judge

said, no, and so trump came out and complained -- he appeared when he first went in to be complaining about not being permitted to attend a graduation, but we want to run that down to make sure that is indeed what transpired. so, this was a pretty grievance-filled griping trump. he looked fatigued from the day. maggie haberman saw him nod off at one point, and there's a vast body of reporting that he was engaged, but this was a pretty deflated donald trump. >> i think he's really angry, and he realizes he has to sit there every day. the judge said if he fails to show up, an issue for his arrest

will be -- and if he disrupts the proceedings, he could be ejected or go to jail. >> vaughn hillyard, has it ever been this real for donald trump? >> reporter: i don't think there's anything more real than a criminal trial. clearly what he's inside looking at here is the potential of attacking the judge could be be the one who determines his sentence if the jury finds him guilty on any of the they charges. at the same time i think it's important to note he did not attend the supreme court arguments back in february when the supreme court mulled over whether me should be permitted onto the colorado ballot. or the determination to stay at west palm beach on that day here. so i think it's notable. has been very defiant, but he said, quote, when talking about this, that they do not believe they should even be here today

to which the judge pushed back saying you don't believe here right now in a credulous way? he's looking at several long days ahead for himself. >> i mean, vaughn, this is where these two realities collide, right? to standing before a judge who says, no, i can't skip out for go to the supreme court arguments. to your point, i'm sure the judge has access to information that he wasn't at the last one. this is the rare arena in which donald trump is not in charge of his own fate. he's not in charge of his schedule or when he gets to eat or go, and when he gets to come. the rules of set by the judge. he is, in some ways, like any

other criminal defendant in these windows of time. >> reporter: this isn't politics. you can't convince chris sununu, despite his outspoken at the same times of you, you know, you can't convince him to vote for you in november, right? this isn't the wielding power. he has no cabinet positions to offer the jurors, right? he doesn't have the vice presidency to offer. he doesn't have the power of social media to attack like a kim recommends or ron desantis. these jurors are normal human beings who live normal lives here in new york. so, for donald trump, he was able to peeled his power thus his business ventures, when suzanne has chronicled in which he rose to real estate magnate, right, and have a tv show. but this point in time, it's

unlike anything he's ever done before. on top of the -- it's not him who gets to write his story. it's the evidence, those closese to him. hope hicks, michael cohen, they, the documents will be the one telling his story, and donald trump has no choice but to sit there and acknowledge that the jurors who hold his fate will be the ones who make that determination, not him and not any of those who he can offer a better job to sometime down in the future. >> this is why vaughn is so uniquely situated to cover these stories for us, claire. this is where donald trump's oxygen supply as a vibrant figure in the maga party -- for

anyone who diplomat see it, yesterday govern sununu on a very aggressive line of questioning from george stephanopoulos, and he said no, no, i'm impervious to facts. this is a forum unless it's infiltrated or corrupted by a sfelt juror, as we talked about, is ruled by facts, governed by the lose of law. that's why do that do that has worked so hard to not end up here. >> this is a cage he can't escape from, and it is now comfortable for him. the judge is not going to look at him and think he weighs 215 pounds. the judge will not look at him and believe what his says just because he says it. it's a much, much different environment for him. he has to do it.

that is so out of donald trump's frame of reference. what all he is going to have is the screeching when the court adjourns. all he will do is victim, victim, victim, deep state, rule of law is gone. that's all he'll be able to do for six to eight weeks. it is really, really going to be tough on him. i think you'll see it. physically he looks terrible day. he never looks great, but he really looked bag today. tired, haggard, and i think this will take a toll on him. he didn't didn't have to be at the other trial, but he was there all the time. he didn't show up for supreme court hearings. if it's son's graduation he's missing, but that's not great, but he's missed a lot of other things in his kids' lives. this is a way to burnish hi victimhood.

>> vaughn presents a very interesting paradox when you're talking about how donald trump is now not able to narrate his own story. one of the things we did talk about about of the break was this nothing of he was going to try to create a narrative around this. it wasn't a narrative about the jury or about being triumphant, but it was a navy tiff about being a victim. it put hem in the center of this entire ordeal in a way that's intended to draw sympathy and still keep him in control. everything he talks about a fixed process, crooked witnesses, a judge who is not giving him a fair shake, the one thing he can do to actually tell his story and not let others narrate is one thing he's not going to do is take the stand and testify under oath.

you're upset because other people are narrating your story in way you find to be offense in, but at the same time you won't go in a venue you need to in order to correct that narrative. you would rather stand on the courtroom steps and pontificate about what a victim are. >> there's something interesting, too in the coverage. this isn't about sex with a porn star. this isn't about sex with carroll. this is about a conspiracy, that donald trump knew was terrible. it was after the "action hollywood" it was a perilous moment. nobody would go on the sunday shows and defend donald trump. he had to walk upstairs and talk to melania.

i think chris christie was with him. it was the most political perilous moment. >> and he made that video i will never forget. it was just so shocking. >> right. >> that moment in the election. i remember where i was. i was with my sister, and i said, this is it. i think the country felt that. how disparate they were for nothing else to come out. it's interesting a lot of the payments there would be one more than one. there was discussion about can we push it off until after the election? it was everything for them to try to salvage this. >> vaughn, what are you hearing -- i mean michael cohen we focus on, and trump's animosity for one another.

michael cohen calls him donald, but there's a lot of people have broken with him. hope hicks is on the list. >> reporter: right. she has separated herself from the world. she is not taking part in this campaign. she left the orbit several years ago, but you look at folks like david pecker, the ceo of the parent compete of "national enquirer." he was a close friend and turned to him, but also plants really salacious stuff. i was covering ted crew in 2016 and there were always running about his alleged infidelity -- you can think what you want about ted cruz, but they were damaging allegations that hit he heart of a family in the middle

of a campaign. now we know from the testimony of david pecker, than -- if i could, nicolle, it takes me a conversation back in green bay, wisconsin, with a trump voter. and when i asked her about this trial, she said, truth doesn't mean anything anymore. that stuck with me. this was a trump loyalist. the truth through the media has large le been resolved. truth when it comes through election is largely dissolved. whether trump is found guilty or there's a hung jury, or found innocent, right? this is a moment where inside of that courtroom, we still know where truth exists, and both sides, they will have the opportunity to present their truths. now it's a matter of folks will agree with that truth, whichever side it ultimately comes down on. >> vaughn, trump's belief, i

think, there aren't enough people like his voter in green bay. he's seen the polling that there aren't enough voters like that, if he should be found guilty, many, many many news cycles away. the jury hasn't even been selected, but that's a political fate for trump that's as daunting as the legal one. >> reporter: even if you listen to steve bannon or matt gaetz suggesting we don't need the suburban independent women, because they believe there are enough fervent folks that believe donald trump's truth, and donald trump's testaments to the state of the country, of his legal perils, that as long as they're able to turn them into voters in places like rural, northeastern arizona, right?

they may not have even voted in to 20, but they're galvanized, outraged by what they believe is the future imprisonment of donald trump, this will galvanize this time, going out there in places like lake havasu, arizona, the stakes are high. they just have to convince those supporters that it's worth their time. >> unbelievable day. vaughn hillyard, susane craig, claire mccass till, thank you so much. 30 minutes in the last bit of court. lisa rubin will join us. don't go anywhere. ill join us. don't go anywhere. so i started . and with the right help, i can make this place i love even better. earn up to 5% cash back on business

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♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's now 5:00 in new york. new york today was host to a uniquely extraordinary moment earlier the morning started with a judge's review of pending motions, having to do with what jurors will and will not be allowed to hear.

this process could take weeks. the task is to determines of fate of one donald trump, charged with 34 kuntz o -- counts of an effort to cover up hush money. the rest of us are to settle in and watch the accountability play out for someone where there was an open question of if it ever was. we start the hour with some of our experts. msnbc legal analyst mary mcchord is here, plus former top official for the department of

justice, andrew weissmann is here, and michael heaphy. >> reporter: nicolle, today was an interesting day like i never expected before. the former president is finally at last sitting before a judge, hey one of his criminal trials. where we left off with an oncology nurse, someone who works for fanduel and others.

folks that have been asked to leave so far, only one didn't self-identify. she said head firmly held beliefs about the former president. at that point, the judge wanted to recuse her, the dee's office said that was fine with them, but the trump lawyers wanted to hear from her. they wanted to hear if she was favorable and plead for her to remain, or more likely they want to support their motion for change of venue, that donald trump can't possibly get a fair trial in man hang. we also saw lots of evidence interest what would be heard in the case. as i said earlier in the day, this would be a much more

documentary, evidentiary heavy case than we previously thought. i think most are preparing for the second showdown of michael cohen and donald trump. in actuality, we may get a bunch of e-mails, checks, ledgers, helping to show the story that michael cohen has been telling all along is one that many other people touched along theway. >> that's one of the things that the treat brings into focus. which alvin bragg -- and there's been criticism as well for alvin bragg. the case presented to the jurors will be a documents case. >> reporter: there was a major victory with respect to michael

cohen, which is what he's allowed to say about the prior criminal prosecution form the trump folks wanted to be able to to have him time about the other crime he pled guilty to, notably pleading to lying before congress they said they had no question of questions the conviction of the campaign violation. not only does he have to talk about the underlying facts of hundred campaign violation, which as you know, dove tails with the facts that will be alleged for this case, but more importantly they said michael cohen needs to tell the jury here that they pled guilty, so that they understand as a cooperator, there was a period of time that michael cohen might have disavowed what he did for

donald trump, but no longer. allen, there seen to be some -- he's not a good poker player. it appears there's plenty to complain about. and, a big loss, when you look it "access hollywood" case, and that managed to do a lot of damage for donald trump in the e. jean carroll trial. >> stepping back, i agree with lisa, this is a day that's a long time coming. remarkably, it's a long time coming with the prosecution trying to get to trial, appeared donald trump, who should, if he's running for office and this is a witch-hunt, i would think he would want the case to clear his name. i think for america, this shows

we can do this for america, this is so exceptional, but we are not the first country even a western democracy, that's held political leader to account. it's happened in france, italy, even israel, with more or less success in argentina. the -- didn't newell in. this is a good sign so far for the fact that this is the justice system. you've seen the prosecution and very experienced defense team, which as it should be, doing a case and to vaughn's point, this

is a place where truth, facts, law should still matter. the political issue is one that people will deal with, depending on the verdict, but in terms of what happens, this is people in america seeing the rule of a.i. law applied to someone, even if they had the most exalted position in our government. he's running honorings some of the insurrectionists at the beginning the rallies. he has no apology for the danger that was put upon mine pep. mar-a-lago -- he's not running as a guy who legally had sex,

and then paid his friends at the "national enquirer" to cover it up. >> it's easy to say it's hush money or ebeck interference, but you go deeper to, what does it mean? what was he trying to portrayed? he's created a picture in 2016 of who he is. now it's quite a tarnished picture, but at the time he was running as a religious guy, he embraces the bible, wants the anti-abortion vote, and this was not an amoral hedonist. that was nots his ticket. it's interesting now he's not embracing that.

he is not saying i aim amoral, i'm a hedonist. i do engage in this conduct. it's still one place where he's drawn some kind of line, which is interesting in his persona. that could be real potential damage here. where the jury finds him guilty or not, i think there will be substantial evidence about i scheme and the nature of it. it wasn't just about stormy daniels. there's a whole efforts we will learn about to portrayed him in a light far better than he deserves and denigrate his opponents as well. >> there was a feeling he

couldn't win without putin, drove him bonkers. this is a domestic version of that. hef couldn't win without catch and kill, squashing the stories of karen mcdougal, squashing the story of stormy daniels. his political instincts might have been right, but we'll never know, because he killed them. that's a story that the prosecutors will tell. >> they'll go back to 2015 back to that meeting where the scream was concocted. there were other examples of people being paid off. they obviously thought there was enough value in squashing these story that mr. trump and those working with him were willing to

pay off people to keep those stories from coming out in public. that's because they saw it damages to his campaign. oy think that's exactly why he has doubled down, tripled do you know and quadrupled down, that he actually would not the 2020 election. he can't conceive of the fact he didn't win, yet he did not. >> mary, are you seen anything here as the first day of trial begin? >> i vjt connected in those sort of online spaces as far as what

they're getting so far today we will be looking for that. it's been relative uneventful. there were people outside the courtroom, but trump was basically masse a not so thinly veiled directive to his supporters to protest. get out in the streets and the not so thinly veiled part was not so quietly. and that didn't really happened. i'm sure there's rhetoric and the propaganda in the dark

corners, but so far people are not mobilizing. its a good sign for the rule of law crowd that this start. in -- i was walking around midtown and people were rushing around, going about their lives. new york is good at this. they host all sorts of trials, all sort of world events, all sorts of protests. they are good at this, but it is a good thing for the rule of law that today was relatively uneventful. >> two victories of sorts. it's the beginning of peeling

away the veneer of impunity the facts have been thoroughly described, but he gets the presumption of innocence in front of that seated jury in however many days that takes. that's a step toward accountability and the rule of law working. to mary's point, the courthouses are hardened places and we're pretty good at protecting those places. it's not a spontaneous march to the capitol, which wasn't totally spontaneous. courthouses have met at detectors, court security. if this trial goes forward and

he's treated like any other defendant with zealous advocacy, where security is maintained, he locks more and more like a regular person appeared less and less impenetrable. i continue to believe there's some group of people in the meddle here, and this that is the potential to be persuasive to him. >> maybe trump does, too, which is why he worked so hard to make this day come. i ooh there are people who are eager to swallow up the lies. we can pray for them and i hope they're well and happy,

whatever, and we're not talking to them necessarily. and then there's the people who think that president biden and heart wits are the only people that can protect the rights. but there's people in the middle where donald trump diplomat want this day to come. these are the only felonies with which he is charged that he doesn't brag about on the stump speeches. there are some parallels to not have some facts come out, i mean, that's exactly something that's that was honed in the walk-up to election day in 2016.

>> precisely. there's no benign spin on these facts. the only defense is it didn't happen. as you have said, between this and the other cases, it's different. there have been time after time after time -- we showed it in our investigation, and we've seen it since, of misinformation of saying things that aren't true, playing to the crowd of people who will, as you've said, noil, will believe it, ignoring the people who have already made up their minds that he's dangerous. the question is how large of that group in the middle is. can facts matter to them? i don't know if that's a third of america or 10% or what? maybe i knew evely have faith in

the system, but he's afraid of that, and that's the audience he plays to. that's why he goes out to the barricade, because the real jury there is that middle of whatever percentage -- that's what he's desperately trying to hold on to. >> i think that part of the electorate pays most attention to the events and news. no one is going anywhere. i have a million more questions. we have to fit in a quick break. we have much more of day one of donald trump's first criminal trial. later in the broadcast, a high-profile governor admitting support for the ex-president doesn't make any sense, yet chris sununu, we'll show you

that extraordinary exchange. plus longtime oklahoma businessman, two-time trump voter now says the only way to save democracy is vote for joe biden. our special coverage on "deadline: white house" continuing after a quick break, don't go anywhere.

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deduce the trump strategy be, and is the fear of a stealth juror overblown? is that what people are afraid of happening? >> reporter: i think, nicolle, the fear of some stealth juror is not overblown, but i that think that juror or jurors could come in guises we wouldn't necessarily recognize. almost anybody would be that stealth juror, because it only takes one. i watch donald trump and ted blanche, very animatedly speaking together. he that juror that most folks one. had he comes from a relatively blue collar background in long island, went to law school at night while he was a paralegal.

he tells folks he was a lifelong law-and-order democrat, then in watching this experience that president trump has had with the law enforcement world, particularly offended by what he would consider the overreach of the department of justice. he see in that journey about who could be that stealth juror. if you described to you his biography, you would not see in him the person that could be the stealth juror, yet we no some people might be ripe for the taking. they're the middle, and they're hoping that one or more is sufficiently offended by the splitization on what they cause the election spore phoenix of it all.

his lawyers are fighting so heart to be that evidence grown, saying that the judge should not have let those tweets in the case. they're just hoping one or more people on the prospective jury, even if they don't fill the mold, it's going to side with them in the end. >> it's so interesting there's a point in the trump story where the facts are not contested, what trump has to go on is convincing his supporters that facts don't matter. >> i have a slightly different take.

>> one of the things the defense has, and frankly sometimes the only thing it has, is the element of surprise. so, i would say let's wait and see how the case opens. if todd blanche does a fire-and-brim stone this is a witch-hunt, we're not contesting the facts, and i think that will show offending to the jury. but even if you think it's an irrelevancy and michael cohen is corroborated, it's a distraction. i think there will be challenges to the state of natural with donald trump with respect to

some of the documents, like what did he know? is it part of the plan? i think there will be enough figure leafs for the jury to saying this is a political prosecution, but there are disputed fact, so let's see how the case opens. we'll know more then. >> again, we're dealing with what's in the public arena. mary, i remember when rudy giuliani went on and -- when he went on sean hannity and how michael cohen paid off the hush money debts. i remember someone close to trump calling me, the mueller probe was roaring along, and manafort had been indicted and

flynn, he said trump's going to get his way out of that stuff. this is where, you know what, screwed. there has always been a belief in trump world if michael cohen spilled the beans, as his has done, trump could face real accountability. >> that's where we are right now. i think andrew is absolutely right. we'll good a good sense of what is contested and what isn't, notwithstanding what you heard rudy giuliani say to sean hannity, we'll get a get idea what trump is prepared to contest. his attorney in open statement cannot promise things he doesn't have a good basis to believe he will deliver on. if he's going to talk about, for example, mr. trump not knowing that these business records were being falsified, maybe he knew

about hush money payments on their own is not unlawful. if he's going to testify there were falsified business records and when he was signing checks, he didn't know that they weren't for legal services, that means he'll have to to introduce evidence of hills intent, and without mr. touch's testimony, he'll have to get that someplace else, if he promises that. so that's why, you foe, we will get a good sense during opening statement. sometimes during opening statements defense counsels are more vague. rarely have they decided at the beginning of trial, because they want to take and sigh, is it necessary, or do we feel confident the government has done a pour job of presenting his case, but it's whether he

needs to get someone who can testify about march trump's again. that's when we'll start to see orbitz of evidence come forward. what seems to be an open question -- how simple can they make it michael cohen didn't have sex with a porn star. michael cohen didn't go to jail. how imperative is it to make it simple. >> always important to try to make the story as --

>> the defense has a very different job. this feels like a reasonable doubt defense. there isn't evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the president knew about these checks. they'll chip away at the credibility of the witnesses, cohen, first and foremost, daniels herself. so lisa is right, the facts of the checks being written and the reports, that that will go in uncontested. the key facts that will be in dispute is the person and knowledge. then the ultimate trump card, so to speak -- not to use a bad pun -- is nullification. the wildcare is a juror who says, i can following the

instructions, i'm going to listen to the evidence, i'm going to make my decision based on the facts presented in court, that's what gets the juror qualified, but thinking ennor that and says i don't care if the facts meet the law, i'm not going to vote for convict, because and i have problem with the whole things. that is the prosecutor's whole nightmare. there is the hope here that a jury ignores the instructions. >> mary mcchord, andrew weissmann, and tim h i have aphy, great to talk with all of you. when we come back, behind curtain number one, one-time

trump critic, says he will support him no matter what. contrast that with an ordinary citizen, urging his party to stand up against a disgraced ex-president and vote for joe biden. stories are ahead. nd vote for j biden. stories are ahead. ♪ (cheery music) - they get it. they know how it works... and more importantly... it works for them. - i don't have any anxiety about money anymore. - i don't have to worry

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the first day of donald trump's trial doesn't just mark the first trial of an ex-president, but a first criminal trial of the presumptive nominee. it is a shameful time when the party has excused the behavior. case in point. here is republican new hampshire governor chris sununu just yesterday. >> you supported him even though you believe he contributed to a insurrection. you support him even though you believe he's lying, even if he's convicted in the manhattan case.

the answer to that did,? >> yes, me and 51% of americans. joining our coverage, amanda carpenter is back, and kim atkins as well. amanda, it is in for a dime, for a dollar. i remember that a lot of republicans after the "access hollywood" tape came out. there is some twisted irony in the fact we're still here. you can grab them in the bleep, is just a defense against the charges, and will as the defense for stealing classified documents. chris sununu seemed to

articulate a if you low. >> yeah, it reps a new low, because he knows he knows better. what governor sununu is demonstrating there a rank tribalism. there is some flaws with his view. one, that he stands with the 51%, somehow this represents the populist view. the last poll a not donald trump that won 51%, it was joe biden, so dismiss that right there. the only polls where you get trump goods to 51% is largely done business his own pollsters. he is accepting this idea that,

okay, do i don't have to deal with donald trump's criminalities, i just want a traditional republican administration. that's what i support when i'm supporting trump. we will not get a traditional republican administration the first time away. you see the number who brought with him, saying he's not fit to be president. he needs to be forced to deal with the reality, as well as a number of republican nominee -- >> excuse me. i'm about to sneeze. it's cold in here. the coalition that hears that that should worry trump side is the biden coalition. the asymmetry is so apparent always in an election year.

chris sununu is he's going to be support of him if he's found guilty a,irof his peers of talking the voters. that's chris sununu, but the democratic coalition which is more of a jellyfish, which expands and contracts during the governing years, because it's so dialed into the governing piece of that, it seems to be a magnet for coming together more around the president. what do you make of this moment where you have the republicans ought in with the potential to be running as a convicted felon? >> i think it's important to point out what chris sununu is doing here, and why it is so problematic. chris sununu is not a maga republican.

he's not somebody who backed trump no matter what, and alleges put party over country. in fact, the last time i saw chris sununu was at a ceremony where he was being honored for his bipartisan work he was a problem solver, the type of politics that the folks in new hampshire like. he was reasonable. the fact he's falling back i want ed nikki haley, but aw shucks, here we are. . in this election, which is existential. it's not just a regular democratic versus republic election, this is protecting democracy or destroying it, that

stark. i was hoping that reasonable people like chris institute knew, mitt roll any, nikki haley, would stand up and say for this election, trump needs to be defeated. after this election i will go back to opposing joe biden's policies and pointing out why they're wrong. chris sununu has called donald trump crazy, an a-hole, but said a-holes come and go, but america is forever. is america forever it trump is reelected? i'm not so sure. thank you both for joining us today. when we come back, the polar opposite of chris sununu in the form of an ordinary citizen. a life democrat long republican, a two-time trump vote, who decided he will put his country over his party, and vote for joy joy. we'll have that conversation,

next. joy joy. we'll have that co nversation, next moving forward with node-positive

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protecting democracy in november will require a coalition of voters. let me take our next best in way

you missed him. last month, jim young joined our program, speaking out about the importance of stopping the disgraced expresident from ever returning to the white house, but he found himself in a position that many mainstream voters, wanting to stop trump, but not willing to vote for joe biden. what a different a month make, jim has taken a new step, urging order republican voters who want to stop trump. he writes this, i believe or mission is to do everything in our power to make sure he did not come near the oval office again. we have

. what for part to the you from where you were the last time we talked to you you weren't going to jump for trump but wasn't shower you could support biden where you are now is voting for biden and urging or republicans to do so. >> i've been busy for the last month or so. i -- my son shame me into going back and watching all the hearings we were talking about, the liz cheney's book and the other issues that i learned about, and my son said well, dad, i know all of that. because i watched all the hearings. so, i send responded by that to watching the ten major hearings where they presented evidence and i even went back to the original hearing that they had

with the four police officers, so, frankly, i have become sort of obsessed with the story, i suppose. but in any case, everything i have done has just reemphasized in my own mind how unthinkable january 6th was. i am convinced that donald trump was behind every thing that happened, and he should have been disqualified a long time ago unfortunately. if the politicians in barkton had done their job, he would have never made it to the republican primary in the first place. so, anyway, i've been busy. i continued to follow liz cheney. i actually even wrote her a letter and suggested sort of a radical plan where by, instead of having to vote directly for joe biden, that maybe there could be a third party strategy

where liz cheney or paul ryan or nikki haley or someone could be at the head of that new party. i call it the reagan party, i suppose, but anyway, the idea would be assuming that party could get a lot of support, from the public through the polls and so on, which i believe they could frankly, perhaps there could be a deal made where by the party knowing that it couldn't win the election could join up with the democrats and in return for that, get some sort of agreement with the democrats that we would support joe biden in return for some say in governments over the next four years. >> yeah. >> it's a radical idea. >> no, no. listen i love the idea so much i wrote a novel about an unity ticket. it's an american fantasy, right, where you have -- you

take the best ideas and tragically it's a fiction, but it's a kind of thing that makes people more hopeful, right, something could change. you make me hopeful something can change and people can take in information and change their minds. that's extraordinary,, jim. >> you know europe has done this forming coalition governments over issues, and it was just an idea. i didn't hear back from liz, didn't expect to. and that's okay. she is a busy lady. i know she is making lots of speeches and obviously, one of the things that allowed me to come to this final conclusion, which is really the only conclusion unfortunately, that we have to go ahead and support president biden is that we just can't -- we just can't have donald trump in the white house again. and it disturbs me that we don't hear much about the

january 6th incident. maybe its too early in the process. and in other words, you know, you would think that if i were joe bide ann campaign people, i would be hammering the evidence and the january 6th committee findings. i would have them on tv every day talking about some pours of that. and we don't hear that but maybe it's too early. >> i am with you. i agree with you. i would love to host you at the table for longer conversation because i think -- he think i am exrepublicans and i think republicans want to fight with democrats about tax and national security but more and more you realize this is not what the elections are about. it's about something different and this is about our democracy and not returning donald trump tonight white house. i would love to hear more about your process and your son

urging you to watch the hearings and maybe liz could be here. thanks very much for coming back and talking to us today. quick break for i and we will be right back. we will be right back. tall tales of true deliveries. ( ♪♪ ) (gasp, crowd cheering) just another day on the job. we did this for love. see what we can do for your business. fedex. and when i got there, they have the sushi- this is clem. like sushi classy- clem's not a morning person. i'm tasting it- or a night person. or a... people person. but he is an “i can solve this in 4 different ways” person. and that person... is impossible to replace. you need clem. clem needs benefits. work with principal so we can help you help clem with a retirement and benefits plan that's right for him. i'm short but i'm... i'm confident. you know? let our expertise round out yours.

before we go on an already extraordinary and historics day there's development in trump related cases before the supreme court. the expresident filed a brief responding to special counselor jack smith why he thinks he is immune in the federal election interference case. at arguments had begin next week and sooner the supreme court will hear a separate case tomorrow object january 6th defendant's obstruction charge the case trump cited in a ruling that could impact hundreds of other january 6th defendants. charged with violating same law. it's something jack smith is keeping an eye on and we are sure. coming up next for us, a very special presentation trump on trial new york versus donald trump. we will be there after a

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